The Democratic Republic of Congo has just held its first democratic elections since the country’s independence in 1960. On the basis of electoral fraud charges, Jean-Pierre Bemba and his coalition have rejected the run-off presidential election which gave the incumbent, Joseph Kabila, 58.05 percent of the vote and Bemba 41.95 percent. But Professor Wamba dia Wamba argues that it is unlikely that the country will return to war. This is the transcript of the podcast published by Pambazuka News this week.

Prof Ernest Wamba dia Wamba is a Senator, and the vice president of the Senate Permanent Commission on Legal and Administrative Matters of the transitional administration of the Democratic Republic of the Congo. Previously, he was Chairman of the Kisangani faction of the rebel group ‘Rally for Congolese Democracy’ during the Second Congo War. He is also a prominent African academic and political theorist.

Pambazuka News: It’s reported that about 25 million people registered for these elections. I believe these are the first democratic elections since the country’s independence in 1960? How important are these elections to the Congolese people?

Prof Wamba dia Wamba: Congolese people saw these elections as an opportunity to express their political views, as well as an opportunity to influence the political decision as to which the direction the country should take.

Pambazuka News: It’s often said that the Sun City Agreement that led to these elections favoured the warlords over the people. Is there any element of truth in that?

Prof Wamba dia Wamba: The peace negotiation mechanisms encouraged by the UN and other international agencies are structured in such a way that they favour those who have the means to threaten peace over the weak and poor. So, yes during the negotiations the warlords’ demands were given first priority. Peaceful organisations were marginalised and ignored, simply because they were viewed as powerless and therefore not a threat.

Pambazuka News: How do you see the South African role in the DRC?

Prof Wamba dia Wamba: In my opinion it is based on a number of mistakes. For example, they approached the DRC situation the same way they approached the apartheid regime. They assumed that, like in apartheid South Africa, there is a mission to be solved and that there is a state. In DRC there is no mission to speak of, and further, the state is fragmented. Another thing is that the South Africans usually talk with those in power, they have no regard for those on the ground.

Pambazuka News: Would it be a fair assessment to describe the DRC as basically a state that is responsible for guaranteeing the basic physical and legal security of investors in the mining sector and other business sectors?

Prof Wamba dia Wamba: In South Africa, big businesses like Anglo American impose on the society a type of economy that is based on extraction of country’s resources and of selling those resources on the international markets. The same kind of economy is envisaged for the DRC.

Pambazuka News: Jean-Pierre Bemba has been quoted as saying that he will not return to war if he loses in the elections. President Joseph Kabila has made similar promises, I believe. Do you think these are empty promises?

Prof Wamba dia Wamba: Personally, I think the DRC will not go back to war. I do not see either of them going back to war.

Pambazuka News: Could you tell us about Kabila, Bemba and Joseph François Zanga’s politics?

Prof Wamba dia Wamba: President Kabila is surrounded by people who are only concerned about enriching themselves. There have been a lot of allegations of corruption against some of these people. For example, there is a parliamentary report revealing that certain contracts give permission to businesses to operate in the DRC for up to 25 years without paying taxes.

Also, Kabila is known for helping himself to money from the national treasury. In addition, he is not well known for respecting the constitution. There are cases where decisions have been taken without any regard for the constitution. For instance, soldiers have been appointed to government positions, whereas the constitution states clearly that soldiers are not to occupy any governmental positions.

Bemba has been the president of the economic and financial commission, whereas he can be linked to the corrupt regime of Mobutu. However, in these elections he has been trying to get all the organisations that are not part of the transition to be included in the process. So, it can be said that he believes in the union which is based on the premise that the unity of the country concerns everybody and not just the majority of the country. This contradicts the presidential majority which views the unity of the country as concerning only the majority of the country with the president at the helm.

Zanga is not known for practical politics. Some people seem to think that his father, Mobutu, was a great statesman. Zanga exploits that and as a result his political camp mainly consists of these individuals. During the campaign, he did not have much to say about what his political plans entailed for the country. He did point out; however, that he was for foreign investments.

Pambazuka News: President Joseph Kabila did not manage to get the 51% vote needed in the first elections to avoid the presidential run-off elections. I believe that Kabila won 44.8% of the vote in first round of the July elections against Bemba’s 20%. How would you interpret these figures?

Prof Wamba dia Wamba: Firstly, these figures reveal that 56% percent of the Congolese people did not vote for Kabila and so are opposed to Kabila’s governance. Secondly, most of the people who make up the 44.8% of his vote are from the East where there were lots of reports and allegations of fraud and irregularities. The point here is that the majority of Congolese people voted against Kabila.

Pambazuka News: Do you think the new government will have legitimacy and support? Do you think it will re-negotiate the business agreements it might have made with countries like South Africa?

Prof Wamba dia Wamba: There were a lot of irregularities and not enough transparency around the voting process and the elections generally. And the Congolese people have made it clear that if the new government is based on fraud, they are not going to accept it.

If Kabila wins the elections, the business agreements will remain as they are. However, if Bemba wins the elections, he has said that the business contracts will have to be re-negotiated on the basis of equal partnership and mutual understanding.

• Interview conducted by Mandisi Majavu.

• Please send comments to or comment online at www.pambazuka.org

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